5/27 Friday Friendzone: Just Friends?

Every Friday, I'll be inviting some of my friends to my "Friendzone" to answer some juicy questions on some hot topic (Not limited to dating/relationships, although I'm sure that will be a frequent topic).  This week's panelists are: Scott, Angrygirl, Jimmy, Lily, and (Y)MC.

This week’s topic is: Just Friends.  How do you become more than just friends? Can you be even be just friends?  Let's see what our panelists had to say...

1. How do you know if a guy/girl likes you?

Scott: This is the easiest thing to figure out, and the one that most people seem to ignore all the time.  If someone likes you, they'll want to be with you as much as possible.  If you want to know if someone likes you, invite them to simple things like getting a coffee or a meal.  Then invite them to things that will take more time for them to plan, like running errands together.  Finally invite them to things that you know will be a big sacrifice of their time, like getting them to go to a volunteering event you know they have no interest in.  If they consistently make time for you, you're in.  If they consistently decline, especially on the simple ones, then forget about it.

Angrygirl: When a guy shows more attention, does nice/sweet things for you, remembers things you've said and acts upon them.. and he only does this with you. That is, his treatment is markedly different from how he treats other girls.

Guys can tell whether their feelings are reciprocated by the response to this stuff. Smiles, genuine hearty laughter, playing along are all positive indications. Tight forced smiles, nervous laughter, conversation killers are signs you should back off. It's really all about the tone and HOW things are being said as opposed to WHAT is being said. "Thanks!" with a smile and a rise in tone is good. "Thanks...." or a curt "Thanks." with a forced smile is probably not good.

Jimmy: Is it bad that I don't think I can answer this question? It's been a few years...

Lily: Me? Personally?  If he says so.  I'm not so good at the non-verbal communication.  Maybe also if he likes talking to me a lot, or if he treats me differently than other girls.  A guy knows I like him if I try to create situations where we can hang out one on one, if I make up an excuse to call him, if I try to get all his online chat info (IM, gchat, Skype).  However, I've done this at some point with guys who are just friends, only much more rarely.  I personally try to make sure the guy doesn't like me though, before doing all that.  Sorry guys, you'll never know until you ask.  I'm glad I'm not a guy, because it sounds really scary!  But in my opinion that's just the way it usually is in Christian circles.   

(Y)MC: The most telling sign of a guy's interest in you is if he keeps popping up in your life without having been invited. He'll show up at social gatherings, meetings that he doesn't actually care about, your neighborhood, or even the public bathroom just to create opportunities to be near/with you. As for indication of a girl's interest in you... they never say it explicitly. It's helpful if you are at least quasi-fluent in a foreign language or ASL, as these skills should enable you to better interpret confusing female signals. 

2. If a guy likes a girl, what should he do to get her attention?  What if the roles are reversed, what should she do to get his attention?

Scott: This is the most gender-biased problem to solve.  Guys should NEVER be nice to a girl whose attention they want, but girls should ALWAYS be nice to a guy whose attention they want.  Basically, girls are used to being treated well ever since they were little, while the opposite is true of guys.  Girls expect to be treated nicely, it's par for the course in a post-feminist society.  You're not gonna stick out.  Being cocky, or mysterious, or a badass, is gonna make you stick out.  On the other hand, make a dude a sandwich and he's putty in your hands.

Angrygirl: The gestures that stand out in my mind are those that showed the guy was really listening and had a sense of humor to know how to play off his knowledge of me. For instance I mentioned one time to a guy that I had just been to CVS and they didn't have the flavor of Dentyne Ice I wanted. A few days later a package came in the mail with a candy company return address, and inside I found packs and packs of Dentyne Ice spearmint.  Another time I playfully argued with a guy over the merits of curry (he didn't think curry was good.. what a weirdo) and he decided to take me to a curry restaurant on our first date to "settle the debate." Stuff like this is definitely not platonic and clearly signals interest. Disclaimer: I think it really depends on the person. What draws my attention wouldn't necessarily be the same for someone else. 

What does a girl need to do? Not much... because guys seem to be perpetually on the prowl for a girl. I actually think guys might be turned off by girls actively trying to be noticed and that instead, it's the girl who's being herself that eventually draws the interest of the guys who are scoping the field.. 

Jimmy: Give her attention. Show an interest in who she is and what she likes. However, do so in a way that is different from your interactions with other female friends. Or, just be bold and forthcoming right off the bat. 

Lily: One good conversation trick that I try to use is stopping at the peak.  Lots of people, if they really like another person, will talk all the way through the conversation, setting, rising action, climax, falling action, denouement (it's like a story!).  They talk all the way until the conversation has completely petered out and has become boring.  Instead, it's better to stop at a high point, even though it's SO tempting to keep talking right then.  Why?  Because you'll end the conversation on a high note, leave the person with the impression that you're both interesting and busy with more than just them (which is also very attractive), and you'll leave them wanting to see you again.  

(Y)MC: Depends. Obviously, in order to succeed, you'll first have to figure out what she likes and dislikes, and then you would tailor your strategery to maximize exposure and create a high rate of return for your time, finances, and emotional investment. For a girl to get a guy's attention, typically skimping on the clothing or developing a "loose" reputation will effectively help a girl garner attention from the opposite sex (including attention from currently registered and future soon-to-be registered sex offenders).

3. How do you know if you're on a date?

Scott: I stick to the position that says there are "friend dates" and "date-dates."  Friend dates can be intentional, like taking someone out to coffee that you just met at church, or unintentional, like holding an impromptu late night study session.  Date-dates must be intentional, in that both parties recognize romantic potential is involved, with initiative and planning necessarily required.  Single young adult men are great at friend dates, but unfortunately on date-dates a lot us tend to suffer from performance anxiety.   

Angrygirl: In an ideal world, guys would ask girls out and then say something really obvious, like "alright, it's a date." But for various reasons this doesn't happen and then girls usually realize ON the date that the guy considers it a date. If both parties are single, and the guy is opening doors and paying for everything and takes to you a very nice steak restaurant where there are linen napkins and sides come separate... yeah that's a date. Also unusual behavior can also be a sign-- dressing nicer than usual, being flirty, yadada. 

Honestly to me it seems so TIRING to try and decipher whether or not something is a date so I would take the direct approach and ask, "is this a date?" You will get one of two responses: "No" = not a date. "Ummmm" = he was hoping it was but now that you ask he has no idea what to say. 

Both approaches (deciphering or asking straight out) have high possibilities for awkwardness so I say just ask straight out.

Jimmy: If I ask her on a date. Men/boys: it only counts if you ASK her out. Don't be a wuss and hope for coincidental 1v1 hangouts. 

Lily: Easiest/best way: the person who asks the other person out says that it's a date.  Usually in dating relationships, the simplest way is the best way.  There are 'signs' that can show me I've been asked on a date, like a nice restaurant where the guy pays and/or just the two of us going somewhere special, but it's nice not to have to agonize over 'the signs.' 

(Y)MC: You're most likely going to be on a date if one of you had mentioned the word "date" before getting together. Also, if you hold hands, kiss, or participate in activities of further physical intimacy, you're probably even more likely to be on a date. As a rule of thumb, I always, always, always kiss on the first date.

4. Can guys and girls just be friends?

Scott: Yes, if the guy thinks the girl is unattractive.  Only temporarily, if he thinks the girl is attractive but she has a boyfriend.  Girls will be miffed by this assertion, but it's true.  This is why girls have "zones" and guys have "ladders."  To a guy, every non-ugly female friend can potentially be something more, and even ones which they didn't initially consider attractive can become attractive.  The lines between "liking" and "loving" are blurred in the male brain.  This is not true for girls.  A friend is a friend, a lover is a lover, and never the twain shall meet!! 

Angrygirl: Until a few months ago I thought this was yes. Then my boyfriend named three people in the last couple of years who were romantically interested in me when, at the time, I thought it was very clear to all parties that I was just buddies with the guy. I think girls have a tendency to think it's possible to have a perfectly platonic relationship with a guy, but from my experience it seems like guys can easily jump from "just a friend" to "want to date."  

Jimmy: Yes. I do think that there can be a relationship that's purely friendship.(Meaning that there can exist a relationship where neither party will want anything more than friendship). However, I think every friendship has moments when one person (or both) at least considers the possibilty of more than a friendship. 

Lily: Sort of.  You have to be honest with your motives in this area.  I've known a lot of people (myself included) who tried to make themselves believe they were just being friends with someone when they actually liked that person.  I've also seen this scenario.  Person A says they just want to be friends with Person B.  B likes A, and A doesn't like B (in that way) at all.  But for some reason, A INSISTS that they have to be close friends with B, even though it's driving B crazy.  Please, A, leave poor B alone.  You don't have to be friends with them. (I see girls do this a lot, but I've seen guys do it too.)  If you want to keep a person of the opposite gender just as a friend, then one way to assure this is to have a few friends of your own gender to confide in.

(Y)MC: Guys and girls can be friends once they finish middle school/junior high school. But sometimes you can run into really sticky situations, like what the girls from Sugar Jones are talking about in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeHl8bEhHsw.

5. Can guys and girls be friends again after they’ve dated or almost dated?

Scott: The person who answers "yes" to this question is the one who initiated the breakup, because they're ignorant and self-centered.  You can only be friends with somebody if you want to be friends.  The person who wanted to break up obviously wants the relationship downgraded to a friendship, so they'll ALWAYS say yes.  The one whose heart is broken doesn't want just a friendship, he or she wanted something more.  If this person says "yes" it's only because: a). they're used to being walked over by people and won't stick up for themselves, b). they hold out hope for the future, sadly, or c). their heart wasn't really broken, like they were secretly hoping to get out too or their mom didn't approve of the girl because she had a fat face.

Angrygirl: Yes, BUT there needs to be time and emotional distance first. Or as my wise crazy mom said, "Just avoid him." Sounds extreme, but I'm grateful I took her advice because I've seen so many friends go through break up, followed by "let's be friends" to take the burn off breaking up, followed by ambiguity with the dumpee experiencing confusion and the dumper experiencing obliviousness or guilt, followed by a second, real break up where the dumpee realizes the hope they had for restoring the relationship was actually all in their head and the dumper totally didn't mean to do that, "I thought we were just friends." If you want to be friends in the future there has to be no hope for becoming more-than-friends, which usually requires a (hopefully temporary) stop in communication. Think of it like an eyebrow tweeze-- quick, initially painful, but infinitely better in the end.

Also the guy my mom told me to leave alone? Didn't talk to him until 3 years later when school scheduling put us back into contact and he is now one of my closest guy friends. And because we've had that history there's more confidence on both sides that we are in fact, just friends.

Jimmy: Yes, I believe they can, but I think past events like that can potentially stifle that relationship from developing into a strong friendship. It can be harder to get close to someone (purly as a friend) after a dating relationship. 

Lily: Imo, not usually.  If the liking was mutual, then it's impossible for me at least to become friends with the person again.  Maybe cordial acquaintances, but even being within the same friend GROUP would be difficult.  Even if the breakup was amicable.  That said, I know there are some people who can go back to being friends again much easier than I can.  So it's a case by case basis.  Note: if only one of the two finds it difficult to go back to being friends, the other one should be sensitive to that.  On the other hand, if the linking was one-sided and that person talked to the other and realized the other didn't feel the same way, I think it's easier to go back to being friends.  As long as the liked person doesn't take advantage of the liker's emotions.

(Y)MC: Theoretically possible, but there's going to be some inevitable awkwardness. In my personal life, I haven't talked to ex's since those relationships ended years ago. Save the drama for their mama...?! 

About the Panelists: 

Scott Yi is a student at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary and a campus minister at Brown University.  He is single, poor, and short, so he doesn't have much going for him.  You can read more of his thoughts at www.sacredraisincakes.com. / Angrygirl is a DC yuppie. / Jimmy is an educator of forest-dwelling high school boys. / Lily is an INTJ (Myers Briggs), and since most INTJs are guys, her advice might be unusual.  She’s read a lot of good Christian literature on dating (and some not so good, like the dreaded Henry Cloud).  She’s been in two relationships, both long-distance. / (Y)MC is a son, brother, and husband. During his spare time, he enjoys long walks on the beach, authentic Taiwanese food, and streaming movies online. He believes almost all heterosexual inter-racial relationships are severely skewed, favor the white man, and consequently further disenfranchise the Asian male demographic group. As such, he has embarked on a personal mission to restore the balance in the world of inter-racial love-making.

5/26 Thursday Theological Thought

“[They] summon him when the need arises and when the crisis is too much for them to handle.”

This may sound like the answer to “When do Christians call out to God?”….but I actually took this quotation from a Wikipedia entry entitled “Captain Planet and the Planeteers.”

If you will recall from this classic 90’s show, the Planeteers are a bunch of incredibly diverse teenagers each entrusted with some sort of ability (although one ability was completely useless) to battle against the evil of pollution.  Near the end of the episode, they inevitably would become overwhelmed by the opposition, and would have no choice but to call upon Captain Planet to save the day.  Then, Captain Planet would ALWAYS clean up whatever “mess” the Planeteers were in and would be fairly dominant in doing so.

And just like most Saturday morning shows, the plot would be almost exactly the same for every episode: Planeteers get into trouble.  They summon Captain Planet.  Captain Planet saves the day. 

You would think that after a few episodes, the Planeteers would just be like “Umm…Cap’n, I think you should just stay with us all the time….even at the beginning of the episode when things seem to be going well, because that’s kind of when things actually start going wrong."

Surely, that's what non-cartoons would do, right?

I, for one, wish that were true.  I remember the terrible lows in my life in which I had no choice but to rely on God...and I remember how he carried me through and never let me down.  But just like a silly Planeteer, I don't cling to God the same way when things are going swell.

Recently, I've been thinking about what it means to meditate and listen to God.  I've learned that not only am I not better than the Planeteers, but I am no better than the Old Testament Israelites who seemed so foolish for always falling into idol worship even after seeing miraculous things like the parting of the Red Sea.  Even though the death and resurrection of Jesus allowed for me to directly communicate with God, why is it such a struggle to do so.  Why is it so difficult to just sit there and listen?

Just like how the Israelites demanded for prophets and kings to communicate with God for them, we're the same way today.  We'd rather have our pastor tell us what we should do instead of listen for God's voice.  We'd rather flip through our Bibles than just sit in silence.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't turn to our pastors or our Bibles, I'm just saying that maybe we should turn to God first.

So instead of just depending on our Fire or Heart, let's summon God early and often.  Meditate.  Listen for what he has to say and obey it. 

Disclaimer: While I may have indirectly compared Captain Planet to God, let me just say that God is so much greater and I doubt that God has a green mullet.

5/25 Wednesday Weekly

MillStar of the Week: This week's MillCredit goes to Irish Blacks.  With Ireland claiming Barack O'Bama as one of their native sons, they should really consider adopting the other celebrity black people who could be Irish... like Eddie Murphy and Shaquille O'Neal.  This would give Ireland three of the biggest names in politics, entertainment, and sports of the last 20 years.  Any more famous Irish Blacks that I missed?

By the way, Ireland missed out on any chance they would ever have at winning a gold medal in Olympic basketball.  In the early 2000s, they could have dominated with a starting lineup of Shaq, Tracy McGrady, Antonio McDyess, Aaron McKie, and Walter McCarty.

MillDud of the Week: A MillDud goes to Harold Camping for his horribly incorrect rapture prediction.  What was this guy thinking?  May 21st 6PM came and went with no puddles of clothing on the ground.  Word has it that the new rapture date is October 21st.  The scary thing is....once he loses all his followers by missing a few more predictions (thus ensuring the Bible's claim that no one will know the hour of Christ's return)....he might actually guess correctly....

BTW...let's go on a "Harold Camping Trip".... umm... what would that even look like?  (MillStar consideration for the most creative answer.)

Sigh of Relief for: Arnold Schwarzenegger

MillBoard Charts Song of the Week: This week's song of the week goes to "Written in the Stars" by Tinie Tempah ft. Eric Turner.  This catchy tune was the theme song for Wrestlemania this year (which is how I was introduced to it).  When I first watched the music video and saw that it was a Adrien Brody-looking white guy and a rapping black guy, I assumed that Eric Turner must be the black guy...thus making Tinie Tempah the owner of the giant nose...and I may have been wrong...

BUT why should you assume that the black guy is the one with the fake name?  The white guy is allowed to go by some random fake name, too, right? Or are YOU too racist to let him be creative???

Also, what's "a message to the main" mean? Huh? Nonsensical lyrics that get repeated over and over?

5/24 Tuesday Time Machine (Milligan)

Milligan (something I would do over): 
When I was a kid, it was not uncommon for me to wake up every morning with a bloody nose.  Perhaps, it was too dry in my bedroom.  Perhaps, this is just something a lot of Chinese kids deal with.  Either way, it didn't bother me much.  I got used to it.  I began becoming incredibly proficient in making origami tissue rockets to stick into my nostrils.  It was also incredibly satisfying to guess the correct moment when I could pick my nose for bloody boogers, without inciting another stream of bleeding.


BUT there was one time, when I wished I wasn't so prone to bloody noses...


When I was in 3rd or 4th grade, I had my first crush.  After school, I would go to my babysitter's house to play until my parents picked me up after work.  And by chance, the first girl I ever liked lived directly behind my babysitter's house.  So for all those days we were only separated by a fence.

One day, I peek through the fence and see her.  And I call her over to have a conversation.  After talking about whatever 10 year olds talked about...she invites me to come over her house to play.  After getting permission from my babysitter to cross over to the other side of the fence...we go into her house to do that thing where you put beads onto a pegboard and then use an iron to melt them into some horrendous looking piece of art.  (What were those things called?)

Anyway, before any iron could be used...my nose starts gushing with blood...

I got embarrassed and decided it was best for me to go back to my babysitter's house instead of letting her see me stuff tissues in my nose....Maybe my story was the inspiration for that Leona Lewis song "Bleeding Love"...

Long story short, I was friendzoned (which wasn't even a known commodity in 1995), BUT the good news is that I stopped getting these random nosebleeds sometime during high school!  ...and now I have a girlfriend.  Coincidence? I think not!


Moral of the story: Don't play ironing beads with a girl you like if you get chronic nosebleeds.  Instead you should probably get a friend of yours to hit on her, then you can "protect" her from him by letting him punch you in the face...and then your nosebleed suddenly becomes a nosebleed of chivalry!

5/23 Monday MillBox

After a 3 year hiatus....the Daily Millings are back again!!!  This time around, each day of the week will have a different gimmick that is inspired by alliteration (hence, Monday MillBox).  Every Monday, I'll be answering questions submitted by my loyal readers.  If you have a question you want to be answered by the next Monday, just leave it in the comments section below and check back on Monday for an answer!

Now let's get to this week's MillBox...

Q: Now that you have the benefit of hindsight, tell us who was better: backstreet boys or *nsync? -- Nick Lachey (98 degrees)

A: Well Nick, I don't need hindsight for this one.  My answer back then is the same as my answer right now.  The Backstreet Boys were totally better.  If this is merely a question of which group had the single most talented player, I might answer otherwise, BUT if you're talking group...it's gotta be BSB.  Each member got a solo in their biggest hit "I Want It That Way" and even the one that had the least solos seemed really musically competent by actually playing the piano in some of their later songs.  Can *nsync boast the same overall talent?  No Way!  Justin Timberlake just hosted SNL a few nights ago and joked that he couldn't even remember Chris Kirkpatrick's name!  BTW, I get the feeling that those *nsync guys weren't really friends in real life.  BSB, on the other hand, are still going strong as a group.  Meanwhile, Chris Kirkpatrick entered obscurity once he ignored the teachings of Samson, Lance Bass is best known for being a gay astronaut, JC Chasez appeared on a bad reality show, and Joey Fatone's last name still spells FAT ONE.  BSB 4 life!!!

In case you wanted to know, Nick...I can pretty confidently say that your 98 degrees weren't even close to those 2 groups.  That was not the "hardest thing I've ever had to do" and I do not wanna "give you just one night, una noche."  ....although for some reason I will say that "with you, I can let my hair down; I can say anything crazy, etc etc etc"

Q: Dear Miller, am I in trouble? -- Arnold (Sacramento, CA)

A: Oh Arnold.  I'd say so.  Not only did you get caught for cheating on your wife, BUT you did it with an old abuelita-looking maid, who probably only wanted to extort your money by bearing you more Austr-spring (Austrian + offspring)....Also....all your movie titles can easily been turned into headline puns!


Arnold's Marriage Terminated!


True Lies...exposed!


Kindergarten Cop-ping a feel??? (Okay that one needs work...)

Q: Any thoughts on the death of wrestling icon Macho Man Randy Savage? -- Slim Jim (Florida)

A: First off, he was definitely a top 5 wrestler in the '80s.  He might not be as well known as Hulk Hogan, BUT he was way better at the actual wrestling and almost on par with Hogan as far as charisma goes.  But, on the other hand, he was a really crazy dude, who did questionable things in his personal life that aren't worthy of praise....


My biggest beef with him, though, is...false advertising.  I have never once "snapped" into a Slim Jim.  I always expected the huge crunching sound that was advertised in the commercials...but it never happened.  Slim Jims were overrated, but give Savage credit for always making me believe that my next one might finally give me that satisfying snapping sound.  OHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH! Dig it!

Q: When I told young impressionable Christians about how "I kissed dating goodbye," did I ruin everything for them? Did I force them to kiss dating goodbye, too? -- J. Harris (Maryland)

A: You sure did, man.  You implied that dating was wrong and that courtship was the way to go.  I understand that people should be entering relationships with the intention to marry, BUT I think you made our generation scared to go out on dates with people they didn't see as wife-able or husband-able.  But, ask happily married couples around you....did they think so highly of their spouse when they first met them?  Seeing how someone acts in a group OR from far away OR from their social networking site is NOT an accurate portrayal of how they might really be like.  Just saying, perhaps you should go out on a few dates with someone before you decide whether you want to borrow half of their genetics for your spawn.

Q: Hey Miller, what do you think is the greatest invention of the last century? -- Joe (Providence, RI)

A: Hands down, I'd hafta say the electric mosquito racket.  No offense to the automobile, the airplane, or the computer, BUT this one's not even close.


Thanks for the questions.  Remember to submit questions for next week's MillBox in the comments section below!